Dialogue
Socrates: (cont.) for i am a lover of learning (philomathes)
// 230δ
φιλομαθὴς γάρ εἰμι
//
Love here is philos rather than eros; philomathes (from philos + manthanein) could be either an adjective or a verb, rendering alternative translations,
for i am a lover of learning
for i am (you) love learning
like a Socratic Tetragrammaton.
This is the speech, written by Lysias, that Phaedrus is about to read; Phaedrus also references Socrates' special interest in erotics (e.g. Symposium 177d).
There’s a notable comparison between suggignoskein (to think together) and charizein (to gratify), whose meanings could somehow overlap (to agree with, to forgive, to share a feeling); whereas Socrates (lover?) asks for the first, Lysias' speech will be about the latter (for a non-lover).
The sheer amount left implicit in the conversation about love (and desire, and sexuality, as subject to persuasion, as coercion, as predatory, as abuse, in a culture of abuse, etc. etc., as experiment, as play, as care, as friendship, as sacred, as true) (and as poetry) really baffled me when i first encountered the dialogue (>25 years ago). But if Phaedrus has a unifying theme, perhaps it would be this — the power of the unspoken.
//
Socrates: think together with me (suggignosko), O best one
// 230δ
συγγίγνωσκέ μοι, ὦ ἄριστε
//
suggignosko, from sun (together) + gignosko (to be aware of, perceive, observe, know, learn, discern, observe, judge, determine, think, know carnally, have sex with), carries a variety of implications, to think with or agree with, also to acknowledge, to confess, to make allowances for, to forgive, etc., similar to Latin conscience; many possible meanings here, intimacy implied —
think together with me
agree with me
share thoughts with me
acknowledge me
learn with me
observe with me
confess to me
share a feeling with me
understand me
recognize me
forgive me
know me
know me together
//
basically a marriage proposal
Phaedrus: (cont.) for artlessly (a-technos), as you say, you have looked like some guided stranger and not of the country
// 230ξ
ἀτεχνῶς γάρ ὃ λέγεις ξεναγουμένῳ τινὶ καὶ οὐκ ἐπιχωρίῳ ἔοικας
//
Socrates: by Hera, it is a beautiful resting place
this platanos tree is hugely wide-spreading (amphilaphes) and high (uphelos); and of the chaste tree, the height and the dense shade are entirely beautiful; and as she holds on (echein) to the cusp (akme) of her full bloom, she supplies such a sweet-smelling place; and also the graceful stream is flowing under the platanos tree with exceedingly cool water, by the witness (tekmairomai) of my foot
and by the girls and the statues it seems to be the temple (hieros/hieron) for some kind of Nymphs and of Achelous; and again, if you wish, the good breath (eupnous) of the place, how sufficient (agapeton) and violently pleasurable (sphodros hedu) it is; summery and clear, it responds to the chorus of cicadas; and most subtle (kompsos) of all is the grass, that it has grown (phuein) in gently to the steep slope, sufficient to hold, for one who has laid down their head, altogether beautifully
so it has been the best stranger guide for you, O beloved Phaedrus
Socrates: so it has been the best stranger guide for you, O beloved Phaedrus
// 230ξ
ὥστε ἄριστά σοι ἐξενάγηται, ὦ φίλε Φαῖδρε
//
Socrates: (cont.) that it has grown (phuein) in gently to the steep slope, sufficient to hold, for one who has laid down their head, altogether beautifully
// 230ξ
ὅτι ἐν ἠρέμα προσάντει ἱκανὴ πέφυκε κατακλινέντι τὴν κεφαλὴν παγκάλως ἔχειν
//
of all
the most subtle
that of the grass
that in gently
to the steep
sufficient has grown
for one who laid down their head
altogether beautifully
to hold
//
Socrates: (cont.) and again, if you wish, the good breath (eupnous) of the place, how sufficiently amicable (agapeton) and violently pleasurable (sphodros hedu) it is
// 230ξ
εἰ δ᾽ αὖ βούλει, τὸ εὔπνουν τοῦ τόπου ὡς ἀγαπητὸν καὶ σφόδρα ἡδύ
//
This resists translation and contains a noetic pleasure puzzle.
Eu + pnous, literally good breath, figuratively good breeze, seems to be a pun or wordplay on eu + nous, which would mean good intellect. The other two predicates — agapeton and sphodros hedu — are a pair of nearly conflicting pleasures. Agapeton describes a moderate and measured affection, whereas sphodros hedu describes a kind of pleasure (intense, vehement, violent) that lacks measure and is infinite; see Philebus 52c.
The hint is that the place itself (tou topou) possesses something akin to intelligence, or something akin to a soul, which can provide both finite and infinite pleasures, and perhaps inspires both finite and infinite love or desire. But only, he specifies, if you wish.
//
Socrates: (cont.) and by the girls and the statues it seems to be the temple (hieron) for some kind of Nymphs and of Achelous
// 230β
Νυμφῶν τέ τινων καὶ Ἀχελῴου ἱερὸν ἀπὸ τῶν κορῶν τε καὶ ἀγαλμάτων ἔοικεν εἶναι
//
Hieron can be read as temple/holy place and as victim/sacrifical offering. Achelous was a shape-shifting river god.
//
Socrates: (cont.) and of the chaste tree, the height and the dense shade are entirely beautiful
// 230β
τοῦ τε ἄγνου τὸ ὕψος καὶ τὸ σύσκιον πάγκαλον
//
Vitex Agnus-castus or chaste tree was associated with rituals for Hera and Demeter and medicinally, since ancient times, with women’s reproductive health. The name of the tree (he agnos/agnos) means sacred, holy, pure, chaste.
//
Socrates: (cont.) this platanos tree is hugely wide-spreading (amphilaphes) and high (hupselos)
// 230β
ἥ τε γὰρ πλάτανος αὕτη μάλ᾽ ἀμφιλαφής τε καὶ ὑψηλή
//
Socrates: well if i distrusted, as do the wise (hoi sophoi), then i wouldn’t be placeless (atopos); then i would wisely (sophein) declare that it was the wind itself of Boreas that thrust her down from the nearby rocks as she was playing with Pharmakeia, and in this way it ended up (teleutein) said that she came to be (gignomai) carried away by Boreas — or else from the hill of Ares; for this story (logos) is also told, that she was carried away from that place and not from here
as for me, O Phaedrus, while otherwise i suppose such as these to be graceful, yet they belong to an exceedingly terrible (deinos) and laborious (epiponos) and not altogether (panu) fortunate (eutuches) man; for no other reason than that for him it’s necessary after this to re-stand up (epanorthousthai) the form (eidos) of the Hippocentaurs, and then again that of the Chimaera, and then out flows a throng of things such as Gorgons and Pegasuses and multitudes of additional impossibilities (a-mechanos) and of such things giving birth (phuein) to placeless (a-topia) storytellings of monsters (teratologos) . . .
if someone, distrusting these, will make each come nearer to a likening (eikos), as if consulting (chraein) some kind of rustic (agroikos) wisdom, he will lack much leisure (schole) for himself; but for me, there is no leisure at all (schole) for these things; and the cause, O beloved, of this, is this —
i am not yet able, according to the Delphic inscription (gramma), to know myself; it appears to me really laughable, not yet knowing this, to examine (skopein) alien things (allotria); from which, saying farewell and letting these be, and being persuaded by the customary belief, which i was just now saying, i examine not these but myself; whether my fortune is to be some beast even more many-twisted (polu + plekein) and inflamed (epituphomai) than Typhon, or to be a gentler (hemeros) and simpler (aploos) animal, by nature sharing in some part of what is divine and not feverish (a-tuphos)
but, O sistere (etaire), in the midst of words — wasn’t this the tree to which you were leading us?
Phaedrus: this indeed is really itself
τοῦτο μὲν οὖν αὐτό
//