VIII.xix. beyond the frame ( wrong direction ) of the butterfly sanctuary
( beyond the frame + wrong direction + unfin + good at math )
ADEIMANTOS: O beloved Sokrates, remind me again.
what was my purpose?
SOKRATES: her-remembrance,
μνήμη:
ADEIMANTOS: for whom ( we brace myself ),
SOKRATES: and( indeed )of your laying( self )hold,
καὶ σοῦ ἐπιλαβομένου
ADEIMANTOS: she for whom ( we travel
in the wrong direction ) from myself,
as if we could insist
SOKRATES: that( even the )all( o all )will be( forced )
compelled to agree-with( same-saying )
( to-by-for )( that )which( we )were saying,
ὅτι πᾶς μὲν ἀναγκασθήσεται (490δ) ὁμολογεῖν οἷς λέγομεν,
ADEIMANTOS: but ( the distance between us greater ) grows
when we harden ( for the question
that never comes ),
SOKRATES: but( when )letting-be( suffering, permitting,
giving-up, letting-alone, letting-lie, and letting-go )
( you let-go )( o he-letting-go )( her-letting-go )the words
( speeches-accounts-reckonings-relations-correspondences-
proportions-explanations-arguments-thinkings-reasonings-
reflections-narratives-rumors-discussions-debates-
deliberations-dialogues-utterances-oracles-
assertions-expressions-grounds ),
ἐάσας δὲ τοὺς λόγους,
ADEIMANTOS: we put my finger in the cup
( and find out the answer )
regardless of my will
( yet we feel closer to you )
yet closer to whom?
SOKRATES: ( o )looking-steadfastly( paying-attention )
( look-steadfastly, you, in- )to the( him )selves
around( about )the( one-he )logos( speech-account-relation )of them,
εἰς αὐτοὺς ἀποβλέψας περὶ ὧν ὁ λόγος,
ADEIMANTOS: and unsure which self would be him,
what if ( we are shaped like a question )
and we would supply familiar features
( in this place of unfamiliar faces )
for him to recognize himself?
SOKRATES: ( he )would say( the grey would affirm )
to see of selves( on the one hand )
the useless( unprofitable, unservicable )( ones),
φαίη ὁρᾶν αὐτῶν τοὺς μὲν ἀχρήστους,
ADEIMANTOS: and what a time wed have
in contemplation of our uselessness.
but ( what if we want your mind )
do we mean my mind or whose?
( where we can be anyone )
and even hims of sundry use?
SOKRATES: but( on the other hand )( to see if )
the many evil( bad-uglies )
( would be )( she )whole-evil( bad-ugly-shame ),
( they sprinkle )( o sprinkling )( barley-groats
on medicinal wine )( the sprinkling )( the sprinklings ),
τοὺς δὲ πολλοὺς κακοὺς πᾶσαν κακίαν,
ADEIMANTOS: and ( wandering ) around my dreams,
my imagination, my day-to-day,
we might put ( sprinkles! )
on ( anything ) thats thrown-across
or -through ( dia - ballein ),
SOKRATES: ( we, o )looking-upon( inspecting, observing,
carefully, taking-care, visiting, like visiting the sick,
considering, reflecting, meditating on )the cause
( of )the slander( thrown-through )( false-accusation-
prejudice-against ),
upon this( he-it )now( we have become )been born,
τῆς διαβολῆς τὴν αἰτίαν ἐπισκοποῦντες ἐπὶ τούτῳ νῦν γεγόναμεν,
ADEIMANTOS: upon . . . this-which ? o,
this one ( he-it ) who comes and goes
( here on my bare thighs ) ( guilty as charged )
leaving butterfly ( pòò ) like
love letters to the nectarine,
SOKRATES: ( who, which, what )why
( o drinkers, o longing ones, o yearning ones,
are you flying hither-thither,
o wine-tasting-drinking )( would be )
the many( o the many )bads
( evils-uglies-sicknesses-shames ) ( ? )
τί ποθ᾽ οἱ πολλοὶ κακοί,
ADEIMANTOS: maybe when we come and go
to that place ( where your hands cant be )
( and take a sip ) and leave a sign
thats when ( we feel closer to you ),
and closer to her whom we remember,
SOKRATES: and( indeed )on account of this —
( o dyad-god )( it was binding )( bind, you )
( god-needed-bound )( it was in-need )( need, you )
( the dyad-god )( indeed )must( be ) —
back again weve taken-up the nature( growth-origin )
of the truly( unconcealedly )wisdom-lovers,
καὶ τούτου δὴ ἕνεκα πάλιν ἀνειλήφαμεν
τὴν τῶν ἀληθῶς φιλοσόφων φύσιν
ADEIMANTOS: like the butterfly men,
those ( hes ) who come and go to such as these,
and drinking nectar where my feet cant go.
and ( what if we want your mind ) also
( as the mind of me or any he ) wandering
around the outermost-edges, where experience
and even ( words escape me ),
SOKRATES: and( indeed )we defined( a boundary,
determining and laying out, our horizon )out-of necessity,
καὶ ἐξ ἀνάγκης ὡρισάμεθα.(490ε)
HERA: hear( of )me now, o Earths( Gaia )
and( indeed )the Sky( Ouranos )broad-from-above,
and o Titan gods, dwelling( to-by-for )you under-
earth( chthon ), around mighty Tartaros,
out-of-whom( be )men and gods,
κέκλυτε νῦν μευ, Γαῖα καὶ Οὐρανὸς εὐρὺς ὕπερθεν
Τιτῆνές τε θεοί, τοὶ ὑπὸ χθονὶ ναιετάοντες
Τάρταρον ἀμφὶ μέγαν, τῶν ἒξ ἄνδρες τε θεοί τε:
SAILORS: ( we )is( are ) ( ! )
ἔστιν,
SOKRATES: so we hypothesize our whole.
( but we cant escape sleep ) together,
which leaves me ( wondering ) about you,
SAILORS: he was saying,
ἔφη,
SOKRATES: but knowing that neither do we know
( what the palm of your hand ) would have-and-hold,
for whom ( these lines will remain ) as parts,
SAILORS: these(shes),
ταῦτα.
SOKRATES: nor do we know what you ( will find
beyond the frame ) of my lived experience,
thats why these-shes we make would be
un-we ( unfin ) until finished by her-yous,
HERA: ( o )all selves, now hear me, and( indeed )give
( of me a )child
apart( away, aloof )from Zeus,
αὐτοὶ νῦν μευ πάντες ἀκούσατε καὶ δότε παῖδα
νόσφι Διός,
SOKRATES: of this-she
( o dyad-god )( she was binding)( bind, you )
( god-needed-bound )( she was in-need )
( need, you )( the dyad-god )( indeed )must( be ),
ταύτης δή,
ADEIMANTOS: fully dyadic ( goddess ) poetry . . .
( using the golden calculator we become )
the calculator we turn me into?
( we calculate probabilities ) and then . . .
would ( we brace myself ) around
open meadows of indeterminacy?
SOKRATES: but( if )( they are )( he is )
( we are )saying( we )ego( being ),
ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ,
ADEIMANTOS: we being free to grow and move
until ( possibilities whirlpool in my head )
as her primordial stew of productivity . . .
but would that mean ( the question never comes ),
SOKRATES: of the( she-nature )( growth-birth-
origin-form-character-substance-dyad )
( it was binding )( it was needful )
( need, you )( bind, you )
must be,
to observe( behold, gaze-at, contemplate )
the destructions( ruins, passings-away, deaths,
corruptions )( of )the( she )nature,
τῆς φύσεως δεῖ θεάσασθαι τὰς φθοράς,
ADEIMANTOS: so not as question, but as necessity . . .
on the one hand ( we answer it anyway ),
as witness to his scatological remains,
as dipped fingers in my pudding cup ( amen ),
risking but slight redness to my dainty skin,
as follies, soap operas, unicorn-porn, born
with ( sprinkles! ) blizzarded-in from you and you,
like cookies starry night with richest cream,
to tempt and tame the little butterbeasts
until the airs astir with fluttering wings,
in-palms-holding his heartbeats memory,
perchance, before releasing me unto herself —
o glorious pollination! or on the other hand,
where re-enactment might make her unsafe,
( we list characteristics ) as for cased specimens:
the Papilionidae, Pieridae, Nymphalidae,
Lycaenidae, Hesperiidae of her corruptions.
and every butterfly would be a mask —
our temple-dwelling her sanctuary inviolable.
//
from hymn to Apollo
Odyssey XI.613-626
Republic VI