Dragons
the Delphiad book VII
ADEIMANTOS: be nice, be good,
be brains-for-glue, be ready for bed,
be perimenopausal and crampy;
SOKRATES: but what(about)(needful-surely-
binding)the(he-)second(he-)this?
ADEIMANTOS: but we dont ask ourselves
to smile through the hurt
its nothing, if youre already dead
but we feel it;
SOKRATES: (we raised-lifted-up)
ADEIMANTOS: you made us serve;
you made her wipe your nose!
couldnt you just have said,
be a cook, a maid, a nurse?
SOKRATES: do you)suppose the god to be(a)wizard,
(an enchanter who howls out enchantments,
a sorcerer, a juggler, a cheat)?
ADEIMANTOS: do you suppose
a heart to be
an endless void to yell into?
SOKRATES: and(indeed)(do you suppose the god
to be such as(would)out-of(a)scheme(she-plot, treachery,
conspiracy-against, will-design-determination-upon),
become visible(appear, present-to-the-eye-
mind, present-to-the-imagination)otherwise,
in(to-by-for)other ideas(forms-shapes),
now-and-then(on the one hand)becoming himself,
and(indeed)changing(altering-exchanging)the eidos(form-
shape)of-himself into many morphe(shapes-forms),
then-and-now(on the other hand)cheating(deceiving)us,
and(indeed)making(these)around himself to seem these(things)?
or simple(single-straightforward)(making-single, unfolding, spreading-
and-stretching-out, making-plain)(to make simple),
and to-be(indeed)(the)least(-worst)of all
to step-out(of, disembark, dismount, over-
step)the she-idea(form-
shape-semblance),
of-himself?
τί δὲ δὴ ὁ δεύτερος ὅδε;
ἆρα γόητα τὸν θεὸν οἴει εἶναι
καὶ οἷον ἐξ ἐπιβουλῆς φαντάζεσθαι ἄλλοτε
ἐν ἄλλαις ἰδέαις
τοτὲ μὲν αὐτὸν γιγνόμενον,
καὶ ἀλλάττοντα τὸ αὑτοῦ εἶδος εἰς πολλὰς μορφάς,
τοτὲ δὲ ἡμᾶς ἀπατῶντα καὶ ποιοῦντα περὶ αὑτοῦ τοιαῦτα δοκεῖν,
ἢ ἁπλοῦν
τε εἶναι καὶ πάντων ἥκιστα
τῆς ἑαυτοῦ ἰδέας ἐκβαίνειν;
KIRKE: o unwearying(man),
and(indeed)(needful-surely-binding)again(bow wow),
warlike works have occupied you(r care, interest, thoughts)
and(indeed)hard work(toil, suffering, stress, pain);
SOKRATES: but what(about)this?
(is)nt(she-)necessary(force-constraint),
if(indeed)some(one)becomes-separated(arises-out-of,
stands-aside-from, out-of-the-way, ceases-retires-
from, abandons, degenerates-departs-
from)(ex-ists)the she-idea
of-himself,
(that he)himself change-position(be-placed-in-
another-way, given-another-instead, set-
free)(meta-ist)
either
by(from-under)himself,
or by(from-under)an-other?
τί δὲ τόδε; οὐκ ἀνάγκη, εἴπερ τι ἐξίσταιτο
τῆς αὑτοῦ ἰδέας,
ἢ αὐτὸ ὑφ᾽ ἑαυτοῦ μεθίστασθαι ἢ ὑπ᾽ ἄλλου;
ADEIMANTOS: (to-by-for)the reader
for her, be happy,
be grateful for her,
whomsoever your-hers be
KIRKE: will(would)you yield(give way, withdraw, depart, comply)
not even(to-by-for)immortal gods?
‘σχέτλιε, καὶ δὴ αὖ τοι πολεμήια ἔργα μέμηλε
καὶ πόνος: οὐδὲ θεοῖσιν ὑπείξεαι ἀθανάτοισιν;
ADEIMANTOS: spun(golden)spiderwebs
from insight binding all the way through the bronze age
that others have things so much worse
SOKRATES: therefore, by(from-under)truly(the moon)(the)other,
the best-least(-worst)(ones)having-holding(other-brunches,
the best meal)(the best-least-worst-ones),
are making-different(changing-altering)
and(indeed)moving, the best-least
(worst-ones)
ADEIMANTOS: its a true thing
to be a warm body
whose heart is stirring
SOKRATES: such as(a)body
by(from-under)bread(grain, rice, corn, food),
and(indeed)drinks(hydration, flying-drunk, drinking-high),
and(indeed)hard-work(toil-struggle-labor-mogis-pos),
ADEIMANTOS: basic things
and others, which are
conveniently always there
for the fortunate
SOKRATES: and(indeed)all growth(all that grows, plants, trees,
animal-body too, shaped by nature, without art)
by(from-under the)warmths-of-the-sun,
and(indeed, from-all-ways, the)winds,
and(indeed other)such sufferings,
(are)nt the healthy-most(o most-healthy)
and(indeed the)strongest(o most-strong-hard-severe-violent)
least(-worst)(being)made-different(changing, altering)?
οὐκοῦν ὑπὸ μὲν ἄλλου
τὰ ἄριστα ἔχοντα ἥκιστα
ἀλλοιοῦταί τε καὶ κινεῖται;
οἷον σῶμα
ὑπὸ σιτίων τε καὶ ποτῶν καὶ πόνων,
καὶ πᾶν φυτὸν
ὑπὸ εἱλήσεών τε καὶ ἀνέμων
καὶ τῶν τοιούτων παθημάτων,
οὐ τὸ ὑγιέστατον καὶ ἰσχυρότατον
381α] ἥκιστα ἀλλοιοῦται;
ADEIMANTOS: we-healthy-training
to be quiet, be silent, be invisible,
and at the same time to shine
KIRKE: but she(to-by-for)you(is)not mortal;
ἡ δέ τοι οὐ θνητή
SOKRATES: but(her-)soul
(being)the most-manly-courageous
and(indeed the)most-phronimos(in-her-senses,
practical-wisdom-discerning),
ADEIMANTOS: and yet you call us
SOKRATES: (o least-worst-he),
ADEIMANTOS: then dare to question the lack of affection
but at least part of us
is laughing
SOKRATES: wouldnt from-without any pathos(experience-
passion-suffering-change-affection-accident)
least(worst)stir-up(trouble-trouble)
and(indeed)make-different(change,
alter)(her-the-soul)?
ψυχὴν δὲ οὐ τὴν ἀνδρειοτάτην
καὶ φρονιμωτάτην
ἥκιστ᾽ ἄν τι ἔξωθεν
πάθος ταράξειέν
τε καὶ ἀλλοιώσειεν;
ADEIMANTOS: how do we fathom
how did they fathom we would
the world would
all would
the sky would
the earth would
the ocean would
the en-souled-wood
the slow-burning ember
be haunted by the words
MEDEIS: but near the beautifully-flowing spring, where(there)
(the)lord killed(a)she-dragon, child of Zeus, from(a)strong
bow(you would live and pass your life), well-fed(fat)(goodly)large,
ἀγχοῦ δὲ κρήνη καλλίρροος, ἔνθα δράκαιναν
κτεῖνεν ἄναξ, Διὸς υἱός, ἀπὸ κρατεροῖο βιοῖο,
ζατρεφέα, μεγάλην,
ADEIMANTOS: we admit it
we arrived here because
it feels amazing
to be reborn a dragon-
blooded wizard
but love asks and answers
here-and-now
“when have you given me reason for it?"
the sweet words
trying to escape
on the page, out in(to)the world
we stop
out of fear
but of what exactly
we ask myself
well my husband told me
we need to stop now
and take a rest day tomorrow
and hes right
and we owe him
everything
and she to whom we owe
all this
being alive
(as you see)
has given me
a mercy-out
o lord
was she Xanthippe?
did you read that(gossip)story
about how she poured pee on his head?
we agree he one-hundred-percent deserved it
yet somehow we consider me
extraordinarily lucky
extraordinarily
beloved
when not(somehow) (somewhere)enraged
anyway
the valley out
until edits tomorrow
read on at himselfs risk
its rough
ruff-ruff
brainmetl
SOKRATES: and(indeed),
truly(the moon)somewhere(somehow)
and(indeed)the(she-dyad)at least,
according(-through)the logos(word-speech-account)itself,
the(she-dyad)well-having-working-at(making-doing-
performing)and(indeed, they)well-having-and-holding,
by(from-under)time,
and(indeed)
by(from-under)the other
sufferings(misfortunes, emotions, affections, feelings),
all-compound-composite(dyad-)vessels(outfit-gear),
and(indeed)house-buildings,
and garments-wraps-clothes,
(the)least(worst)makes-different(changes-
alters)(the least-worst).
καὶ μήν που καὶ τά γε
σύνθετα πάντα σκεύη
τε καὶ οἰκοδομήματα
καὶ ἀμφιέσματα
κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον
τὰ εὖ εἰργασμένα
καὶ εὖ ἔχοντα
ὑπὸ χρόνου
τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων παθημάτων
ἥκιστα ἀλλοιοῦται.
MEDEIS: (a)wild(savage, harsh, ungoverned, agrarian)(wonder-)sign
(a marvel, portent, monstrous monstrosity of wonder),
τέρας ἄγριον,
SOKRATES: (the)all,
(needful-surely-binding)
has and holds(we have
and hold)it(having-holding
)beautifully(the all),
either(by)nature(-dyad)(would-will produce, make-grow, put-
forth-scions)(youll wax, spring-up-forth,
be born, become your nature),
by art(skill-craft-cunning
rules-system-method
-tricks),
or by both,
(the all)admits(approves, allows, gives-ears-to, attends-
as-possibility)the smallest(least)(-she-)(change)(turnover-
transition-reversal-eclipse)
by(from-under the)other.
πᾶν δὴ τὸ καλῶς ἔχον
ἢ φύσει ἢ τέχνῃ ἢ ἀμφοτέροις
ἐλαχίστην μεταβολὴν
ὑπ᾽ ἄλλου ἐνδέχεται.
MEDEIS: she-which was doing(offering as sacrifice)many evil(ill-
ugly)human beings on earth, many selves(on the one hand)
and many(on the other)long-striding sheep(goats, small
cattle, apples, rose-apples, peaches, apricots, quince,
cheeks, girls breasts, under-eye-swellings, tonsils,
cups shaped like apples),
ἣ κακὰ πολλὰ
ἀνθρώπους ἔρδεσκεν ἐπὶ χθονί, πολλὰ μὲν αὐτούς,
πολλὰ δὲ μῆλα ταναύποδ᾽,
SOKRATES: but-still(truly the moon)
the god, at-least, and(indeed)the(she-dyad)of the god
wholly has(and holds)(youre had and held)(he was pouring-out
and letting-flow and melting and shedding
the viper-dyad, to-for-
by the viper)
the best.
ἀλλὰ μὴν ὁ θεός γε
καὶ τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ
πάντῃ ἄριστα ἔχει.
MEDEIS: since(youre following the dyad-word-song),
(she was)becoming(become, you
(a)red-tawny misery-bane.
ἐπεὶ πέλε πῆμα δαφοινόν.
SOKRATES: to-for-by-this-she, then(needful-surely-binding), the god-
least(-worst)would hold(check-curb-keep-back-restrain-
hold-have-conceive-receive-involve-
be-capable-of)many shapes.
ταύτῃ μὲν δὴ ἥκιστα ἂν πολλὰς μορφὰς ἴσχοι ὁ θεός.
MEDEIS: and once(o real-drunk, a)receptacle(receiving)(bringing
to light, showing-forth)of(from)gold-throned Hera, (she)brought-up
(reared, kept, grew, let-grow, contained)(thickening,
becoming curdled, firm)
καὶ ποτε δεξαμένη χρυσοθρόνου ἔτρεφεν Ἥρης
SOKRATES: but still then-and-there, would he-himself turn-
about(throw-into a different position, undergo a change)
and make different(change, alter)himself?
ἀλλ᾽ ἆρα αὐτὸς αὑτὸν μεταβάλλοι ἂν καὶ ἀλλοιοῖ;
MEDEIS: the terrible(dread-wondrous-clever-strange)and
painful(troublesome-vexatious)Typhon, misery-bane(to-by-
for)mortals(blood-
gore);
( δεινόν τ᾽ ἀργαλέον τε Τυφάονα, πῆμα βροτοῖσιν ):
SOKRATES: which therefore,
does he turn about(throw into a different position, undergo
a change)(you turn and change)himself
for the better and(indeed)more beautiful,
or for the worse(lowlier-meaner)and the uglier of himself?
πότερον οὖν
ἐπὶ τὸ βέλτιόν τε καὶ κάλλιον
μεταβάλλει ἑαυτὸν
ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ χεῖρον καὶ τὸ αἴσχιον ἑαυτοῦ;
MEDEIS: which-whom(drunk-as)ever(then-and-there)(she was tilling)(sowing)
(to raise-up)(she raised-up)(we raised-up)(be raised, you)(o prayers)(o vows)
(o curses)(she, striving, gained)Hera-angering,
(to-by-for)Zeus-father,
was bringing(him-it)forth,
ὅν ποτ᾽ ἄρ᾽ Ἥρη ἔτικτε χολωσαμένη Διὶ πατρί,
SOKRATES: most correct; but(we were,
they were, he was, we say)say(you)we.
and(indeed)thus of having(holding)does anyone seem
(you self-seem)(by a kind of meteor)to-for-by you,
O Adeimantos(fearless prophet),
willingly to make himself worse(lowlier-meaner)
(he was mastering-subduing)(master-
subdue, you)in any way whatsoever,
among gods or among human beings?
ὀρθότατα, ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ, λέγεις.
καὶ οὕτως ἔχοντος δοκεῖ ἄν τίς σοι,
ὦ Ἀδείμαντε, ἑκὼν αὑτὸν χείρω ποιεῖν
ὁπῃοῦν ἢ θεῶν ἢ ἀνθρώπων;
MEDEIS: when(there-and-then)(we raised-up)(dyad-prayer)(dyad-ruin)
(we have taught)(she has taught)(the One)the glorious son of Kronos
brought-into-the-world(Athena)(Athens)the city
in(to-for-by)the head(crown-peak-
summit-apex-extremity-
tip, the sum);
ἡνίκ᾽ ἄρα Κρονίδης ἐρικυδέα γείνατ᾽ Ἀθήνην
ἐν κορυφῇ:
HOMER: but(he)addressed(the agora)himself,
αὐτὸς δέ σφ᾽ ἀγόρευε,
SOKRATES: impossible then-and-there,
(we)were saying, and(indeed,
to-by-for the)god(altering)
to wish to alter himself,
but-still as(it)seems,
(the)most-beautiful-and-best-being
with-respect(in)to(its)potential
each(among)selves,
(it)remains(you remain)(might-force-
strength-dyad)(by force)always simple
in the shape of itself.
ἀδύνατον ἄρα, ἔφην,
καὶ θεῷ ἐθέλειν αὑτὸν ἀλλοιοῦν,
ἀλλ᾽ ὡς ἔοικε,
κάλλιστος καὶ ἄριστος ὢν
εἰς τὸ δυνατὸν
ἕκαστος αὐτῶν
μένει ἀεὶ ἁπλῶς
ἐν τῇ αὑτοῦ μορφῇ.
MEDEIS: but she-lady-mistress Hera quickly angered
and(was eating)after gathering(by begging)together
(the)immortals, she said;
ἣ δ᾽ αἶψα χολώσατο πότνια Ἥρη
ἠδὲ καὶ ἀγρομένοισι μετ᾽ ἀθανάτοισιν ἔειπε:
HERA: hear(of)me(you all), o all(children and fathers)gods(she would shine)
and all(o all)(get it, you)(to sprinkle)(she would sprinkle)(besprinkle
pharmakon)(be partaken)(by all)(by the goddess)goddesses,
( κέκλυτέ μευ, πάντες τε θεοὶ πᾶσαί τε θέαιναι ),
SOKRATES: but-still, then-and-there,
but(we were, they were, he was, we say)we(you)say,
(are)the gods(them)selves(on the one hand)(we are)
such-as wouldnt throw-after(to turn quickly),
but(to-by-for)our makings(they make)to seem(of she)selves
to appear(come-to-light)(shine-forth)(saffron-veiled, like the dawn)
(to reveal)of-every(kind, sorts, folds, ways, countries, shapes, . .),
deceiving(beguiling, seducing, swindling, tricking, cheating)and(indeed)
ensorceling(bewitching, beguiling, fascinating,
howling-wizard-
playing)(we)?
ἀλλ᾽ ἆρα, ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ,
αὐτοὶ μὲν οἱ θεοί εἰσιν οἷοι μὴ μεταβάλλειν,
ἡμῖν δὲ ποιοῦσιν δοκεῖν σφᾶς παντοδαποὺς φαίνεσθαι,
ἐξαπατῶντες καὶ γοητεύοντες;
HERA: as(first)cloud(dyad)gatherer Zeus leads(begins-governs)to dishonor me
first, since(you are and approach the dyad-word-song)(he)made
me(poetry, a)careful-knowing-wife(of knowing);
ὡς ἔμ᾽ ἀτιμάζειν ἄρχει νεφεληγερέτα Ζεὺς
πρῶτος, ἐπεί μ᾽ ἄλοχον ποιήσατο κέδν᾽ εἰδυῖαν:
SOKRATES: but what? but(we were,
they were, he was, we say)we(you)say;
would(the)god(o god)wish to be cheated(balked, disappointed,
deceived, mistaken)either(to-by-for the)logos(word-
speech-account)or(to-by-for the)work(act-
deed)stretching-forth(holding-out
)(a)phantasm?
τί δέ; ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ:
ψεύδεσθαι θεὸς ἐθέλοι
ἂν ἢ λόγῳ ἢ ἔργῳ
φάντασμα προτείνων;
HERA: and(indeed)now, apart(from)me(you would throw-up)he
brought-forth(bring-forth, you)gleaming-eyed(Athena)(Athens)(the city),
καὶ νῦν ( νόσφιν ἐμεῖο ) τέκε γλαυκῶπιν Ἀθήνην,
SOKRATES: dont(you)(you-have-seen)know,
but(we were, they were, he was, we say)we(you)say,
that at-least as the true(unconcealedly)falsehood(lie),
if and such(as)this to speak,
all gods and(indeed)human beings(to-by-for hatings)hate(that)?
οὐκ οἶσθα, ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ,
ὅτι τό γε ὡς ἀληθῶς ψεῦδος,
εἰ οἷόν τε τοῦτο εἰπεῖν,
πάντες θεοί τε καὶ ἄνθρωποι μισοῦσιν;
HERA: she(-all-)distinguised(she distinguishes)(your-self-distinguishing)
(possession)among all(children and fathers)(the)blessed immortals(she
would)(they make immortal)(by makings immortal);
ἣ πᾶσιν μακάρεσσι μεταπρέπει ἀθανάτοισιν:
SOKRATES: in-this-way, but(we were,
they were, he was, we say)we(you)say,
that no one(o no one)willingly wishes, somehow, (to-by-for)the lord-
master(authority-with-most-power, most-sovereign)of themselves
to be cheated(deceived-beguiled), and(indeed)
about(around)the lord-masters(authority-mosts),
but-still, of-all, (he)fears the-most, to-have-been-got(ten,
acquired, possessed)there,
(in his lord-master).
οὕτως, ἦν δ᾽ ἐγώ,
ὅτι τῷ κυριωτάτῳ που ἑαυτῶν ψεύδεσθαι
καὶ περὶ τὰ κυριώτατα οὐδεὶς ἑκὼν ἐθέλει,
ἀλλὰ πάντων μάλιστα φοβεῖται ἐκεῖ αὐτὸ κεκτῆσθαι.
ACHILLES: but in — (he)stuck(planted-fixed-firmly-fast,
the skolops)pointed(spears, thorns, palisades, hooks);
ἐν δὲ σκόλοπας κατέπηξεν:
SOKRATES: for you suppose me, (we)were saying,
to speak something revered(august-holy-stately-majestic-proud-
haughty-solemn-pompous-grand);
but(we-being-we)say that(to-by-for)the soul
(around)about the beings
to be deceived(cheated-beguiled)
and(indeed)to have-been-deceived(beguiled)
and(indeed)to be ignorant(stupid, unlearned)
and(indeed)to have-and-hold, here-then-and-there,
and(indeed)to-have-been-got(ten, acquired, possessed)
all(o all)least(-worst)would receive
(or show-forth)the falsehood(lie),
and(indeed, they)hate(by hatings)most
(it)self in the such-as-that.
οἴει γάρ τί με, ἔφην, σεμνὸν λέγειν:
ἐγὼ δὲ λέγω ὅτι τῇ ψυχῇ
περὶ τὰ ὄντα
ψεύδεσθαί τε καὶ ἐψεῦσθαι
καὶ ἀμαθῆ εἶναι καὶ ἐνταῦθα ἔχειν
τε καὶ κεκτῆσθαι τὸ ψεῦδος πάντες ἥκιστα ἂν δέξαιντο,
καὶ μισοῦσι μάλιστα αὐτὸ ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ.
HERA: nevertheless, he who at least has been weakly-halting-born(to have
been born)(they had been born)among all(children and fathers)gods
(by possession)
αὐτὰρ ὅ γ᾽ ἠπεδανὸς γέγονεν μετὰ πᾶσι θεοῖσι
SOKRATES: but-still(truly the moon)
at-least(would be the)most(plural)correct,
he-which just-now(we-they)were saying(the elegy),
this, as truly(unconcealedly)lie(falsehood)would(will)be called,
she(who)in(to)the soul un-knows(her)she(self)of-him(self)having-been-deceived;
(wags tail)
ἀλλὰ μὴν ὀρθότατά γ᾽ ἄν,
ὃ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον,
τοῦτο ὡς ἀληθῶς ψεῦδος καλοῖτο,
ἡ ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ἄγνοια ἡ τοῦ ἐψευσμένου:
since(you are already following the dyad-word-song)
that some(kind-of)copy(counterfeit-imitation), at least
in(to)the words(speeches-accounts)of-him(self)
in(to)the soul(we)is(are)(a copy)of suffering(misfortune, affection
and(indeed)having-later-becoming(an)eidolon(image-phantom-idol),
not(wholly)perfectly(an)un-mixed falsehood(lie).
ἐπεὶ τό γε ἐν τοῖς λόγοις μίμημά τι τοῦ
ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ἐστὶν παθήματος
καὶ ὕστερον γεγονὸς εἴδωλον,
οὐ πάνυ ἄκρατον ψεῦδος.
or(why?)as(if)not(eh!)in-this-way?
ἢ οὐχ οὕτω;
HERA: my(all)child(child and father)Hephaistos, shrivelled-shrunken-
crooked feet, him-it(we brought-forth)(they brought-forth)(bringing-
forth)herself(o herself);
παῖς ἐμὸς Ἥφαιστος, ῥικνὸς πόδας, ὃν τέκον αὐτή:
SOKRATES: the(truly the moon)(binding-surely-needful)
(to-by-for)the-being lie(falsehood in relation to “what is”)
not only by(from-under)gods
but-still and(indeed)by(from-under)human beings
(is)hated.
τὸ μὲν δὴ
τῷ ὄντι ψεῦδος
οὐ μόνον ὑπὸ θεῶν
ἀλλὰ καὶ ὑπ᾽ ἀνθρώπων
μισεῖται.
HERA: (my)shame, whom(to-by-for)me(she would throw-up)
and(indeed, my)blame(reproach-disgrace-censure)into the sky(heaven)(whom)
and(indeed)herself(o herself)
αἶσχος ἐμοὶ καὶ ὄνειδος ἐν οὐρανῷ ὅντε καὶ αὐτή
SOKRATES: but what(about the)(needful-surely-
binding)in(to)the speeches(words-accounts)lie?
and(when indeed)ever(o drinkin)(to-by-for)it(d
be)useful(serviceable),
so-as not to-be worthy(of)hatred?
τί δὲ δὴ τὸ ἐν τοῖς λόγοις ψεῦδος;
πότε καὶ τῷ χρήσιμον,
ὥστε μὴ ἄξιον εἶναι μίσους;
(they raised-up)(be raised, you!)
(we raise up)(to raise up!)(drinkincups?)
(is it)not toward hostile-enemies
and(indeed, before beauty-will-being-)called-friends,
when through madness(mania)
or some un-thoughtful(foolish)evil(ill-ugly)
(they)would attempt doing something,
then(it)comes-to-be useful(servicable)
as(a)pharmakon(drug-medicine-cure)
for-the-sake-of turning-away(prevention)?
ἆρ᾽ οὐ πρός τε τοὺς πολεμίους καὶ τῶν καλουμένων φίλων,
ὅταν διὰ μανίαν ἤ τινα ἄνοιαν κακόν τι ἐπιχειρῶσιν πράττειν,
τότε ἀποτροπῆς ἕνεκα ὡς φάρμακον χρήσιμον γίγνεται;
and in which(-she-whiches)just-now(we)were saying
(to-for-by)mythologia(word-story-speech-accounts),
through it not to(have-seen)know
in-which-way(the)true(unconcealed)has-and-holds
(you, viper-dyad, are having-and-being-held,
to-by-for the viper)about(around)the ancients
(making-ancient)(o making-ancient)(making-ancient),
making-like, (to-by-for)the(she-dyad)true, the falsehood(lie)(like it),
(and)that(as)much(as possible), thus
(we)make(it)useful(serviceable)?
καὶ ἐν αἷς νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν ταῖς μυθολογίαις,
διὰ τὸ μὴ εἰδέναι ὅπῃ τἀληθὲς ἔχει περὶ τῶν παλαιῶν,
ἀφομοιοῦντες τῷ ἀληθεῖ τὸ ψεῦδος ὅτι μάλιστα,
οὕτω χρήσιμον ποιοῦμεν;
HERA: we hurled-cast-threw(she threw)(to throw)(be thrown, you)(by braided-
work)(o hurling)(o dyad-king)(o dyad-accomplishment)(o lord)(o dyad-
fulfilment)(o silly-witless)(we will be lord)upwards(to-by-for)hands
ῥῖψ᾽ ἀνὰ χερσὶν
SOKRATES: according(through)what,
(needful-surely-binding)then, of these,
(to-by-for)the god,
(is)the falsehood(lie), useful(serviceable)?
(is it)because-of(that)which(he does)nt(having-seen)know,
(or through)making-like the(she-dyad-)ancients,
(that he)would be deceived(beguiled)?
κατὰ τί δὴ οὖν τούτων τῷ θεῷ τὸ ψεῦδος χρήσιμον;
πότερον διὰ τὸ μὴ εἰδέναι τὰ παλαιὰ ἀφομοιῶν ἂν ψεύδοιτο;
HERA: (dyad-)(will-be-)(taking-seizing-grasping)(conquering by force)
and(indeed)(they throw-in)(throw-in, you)(o throwing-in)we threw-in
(dyad-breadth to)by(for)the wide-broad sea;
ἑλοῦσα καὶ ἔμβαλον εὐρέι πόντῳ:
SOKRATES: (a)poet(author)(on the one hand)
there-and-then false(lying-untrue)in(to)god-
is-in-not.
ποιητὴς μὲν ἄρα ψευδὴς ἐν θεῷ οὐκ ἔνι.
ACHILLES: but still, not even so
(is he)able
to hold(keep-back-restrain)
(the)strength(of)man-slaying Hektor;
ἀλλ᾽ οὐδ᾽ ὧς δύναται σθένος Ἕκτορος ἀνδροφόνοιο
ἴσχειν:
SOKRATES: but-still, fearing
the hated(ones, hostile enemies),
(he would)lie?
ἀλλὰ δεδιὼς τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ψεύδοιτο;
HERA: but-still(dyad-)silver-footed Thetis, (the)dauther of Nereus, accepted-
received-heard-welcomed(brought-to-light, showed-forth, made-
known, explained, exhibited)her
ἀλλά ἑ Νηρῆος θυγάτηρ Θέτις ἀργυρόπεζα
SOKRATES: but-still,
through familiars(family-house),
on-account-of un-thinking(folly),
or madness(mania)?
ἀλλὰ δι᾽ οἰκείων ἄνοιαν ἢ μανίαν;
HERA: and(indeed)among(with)those(she would let go, utter, speak, throw, shoot, let-
flow, pour, spout-forth)sisters, (she would)(will-to)take-care(provide-
for, attend-to, receive, carry-safe-away, rescue).
δέξατο καὶ μετὰ ᾗσι κασιγνήτῃσι κόμισσεν.
SOKRATES: not there-and-then
(they raised-up)(be raised, you!)
(we raise up)(to raise up!)
(we)is(being),
for-the-sake-of-(itself)-god-would-lie.
οὐκ ἄρα ἔστιν οὗ ἕνεκα ἂν θεὸς ψεύδοιτο.
ACHILLES: but as-long-as(we were)waging-war amongst(the)Achaians
Hektor(was)not willing to stir-up(urge-on, incite, arouse,
awaken, call-forth)(the she-)battle from(the city)wall,
ὄφρα δ᾽ ἐγὼ μετ᾽ Ἀχαιοῖσιν πολέμιζον
οὐκ ἐθέλεσκε μάχην ἀπὸ τείχεος ὀρνύμεν Ἕκτωρ,
SOKRATES: wholly there-and-then
(they raised-up)(be raised, you!)
(we raise up)(to raise up!)
un-false(be)
the(daimonic)daimonion
and(indeed)the god.
πάντῃ ἄρα ἀψευδὲς τὸ δαιμόνιόν τε καὶ τὸ θεῖον.
ACHILLES: but-still(he)was coming as-far-as(the)Skaiai gates
and(indeed the)oak tree;
where(there)once(drunk)(alone)was staying(remaining,
awaiting)alone,
ἀλλ᾽ ὅσον ἐς Σκαιάς τε πύλας καὶ φηγὸν ἵκανεν:
ἔνθά ποτ᾽ οἶον ἔμιμνε,
SOKRATES: exactly(to-by-for)care(attendance, being-
looked-after, cared-for, for horses, for plants, in comforts and supplies)
the simple(making-single, unfolding, stretching-out)(to make-simple)god
and(indeed the)true(unconcealing)
and in(the)work(deed-act)
and(indeed)in(the)logos(word-speech-account),
and(indeed)neither(does the)self change(position, make-way, cease, alter)
nor(does he)deceive(trick-seduce-beguile)others
(he is deceiving)(you would be and are deceived)
nor according(through)phantasia(imagination)
nor according(through)speeches(words-accounts)
nor according(through)(the)guidance(escort-
conduct of)signs(traces-tokens),
neither waking, nor
sleeping, dreams.
κομιδῇ ἄρα ὁ θεὸς ἁπλοῦν καὶ ἀληθὲς ἔν τε ἔργῳ καὶ λόγῳ,
καὶ οὔτε αὐτὸς μεθίσταται οὔτε ἄλλους ἐξαπατᾷ,
οὔτε κατὰ φαντασίας οὔτε κατὰ λόγους οὔτε κατὰ σημείων πομπάς,
οὔθ᾽ ὕπαρ οὐδ᾽ ὄναρ.
ACHILLES: but mogis(with toil and pain, hardly, scarcely, just, only just, only
after long years)(did he)escape my onslaught
(onset, assault, attack, invasion, rage,
shock, cast, impulse, effort, rush
to strip a fallen foe — )
μόγις δέ μευ ἔκφυγεν ὁρμήν.
SOKRATES: (you)agree(with and yield)there-and-then
(they raised-up)(be raised, you!)(we raise up)(to raise up!),
we were saying,
this second blow(beat-stamp-impression-mark-hollow-cast
replica-image-form-shape-model-impression-outline-
sketch-style-etc)to-be,
in which its(needing)(its binding)(need, you)(bind, you)necessary
about(around)gods(and goddesses and seeings)
and(indeed)to speak and(indeed)to make,
as neither being(howling)wizards(them)selves
(to-for-by)which to throw(turning-changing)after themselves,
nor(to-by-for)falsehoods(lies)to(mis)lead(divert,
influence, persuade, introdue)bring-us-forward,
in logos(word-speech-account)or in work(deed-act)?
συγχωρεῖς ἄρα, ἔφην,
τοῦτον δεύτερον τύπον εἶναι
ἐν ᾧ δεῖ περὶ θεῶν καὶ λέγειν καὶ ποιεῖν,
ὡς μήτε αὐτοὺς γόητας ὄντας τῷ μεταβάλλειν ἑαυτοὺς
μήτε ἡμᾶς ψεύδεσι παράγειν ἐν λόγῳ ἢ ἐν ἔργῳ;
ADEIMANTOS: we agree
συγχωρῶ.
SOKRATES: (dyads)many(dyads)
(they raised-up)(be raised, you!)(we raise up)(to raise up!),
(of)Homer(we are)praising(o praising)(applauding)(commending),
but-still(this, )(we will not and would)not praise,
the guidance(conduct-escort of)dreams
by(from-under)Zeus, to-for-by Agamemnon;
(Agamemnons not good at receiving dreams)
(and)neither of Aeschylus, (well drunkenly sing),
when she-Thetis would say he-Apollo, in her own wedding feasts,
(was)pleasing(delighting)(finding favor and acceptance)(gratifying)
“to be divided-distributed those-her well-blessed-children”
“infinite(inexperiences in)(lands of)sicknesses(anguishes, plagues)
and(indeed)long-lasting lives(and ways and means of living),
and all-together(o all-together)saying(o saying,
o)beloved-of-gods my fortunes(of fortune)
(o dyad)paean-deliverer-healer-choral-song(he)shouted assent,
my being-in-cheerful-hearted-delight.
we(i)being the mouth(o mouth)un-false(trusty-sincere)
the god of Phoibos(shining-radiant-pure)
(they and we)were expecting(and hoping for)to-be,
being-full-to-bursting(tree moss, oyster-green, liverwort,
catkin, hazel-blossom, marsh-plant, or mossy sea-weed)
(to-by-for)(the she-)prophetic(oracular)art(skill-craft-cunning);
but he, himself singing(o singing), himself(the light-ship)being-present
(o bring-present)(being-near)(having-arrived)in(the)she-feast,
himself(o)this-she-dyad speaking,
himself(we)is(being)he-killing
the child of mine —
πολλὰ ἄρα Ὁμήρου ἐπαινοῦντες,
ἀλλὰ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐπαινεσόμεθα,
τὴν τοῦ ἐνυπνίου πομπὴν ὑπὸ Διὸς τῷ Ἀγαμέμνονι:
οὐδὲ Αἰσχύλου,
ὅταν φῇ ἡ Θέτις τὸν Ἀπόλλω ἐν τοῖς αὑτῆς
γάμοις ᾁδοντα “ἐνδατεῖσθαι τὰς ἑὰς εὐπαιδίας”
Hom. Il. 2.1—
“νόσων τ᾽ ἀπείρους καὶ μακραίωνας βίους,
ξύμπαντά τ᾽ εἰπὼν θεοφιλεῖς ἐμὰς τύχας
παιᾶν᾽ ἐπηυφήμησεν, εὐθυμῶν ἐμέ.
κἀγὼ τὸ Φοίβου θεῖον ἀψευδὲς στόμα
ἤλπιζον εἶναι, μαντικῇ βρύον τέχνῃ:
ὁ δ᾽, αὐτὸς ὑμνῶν, αὐτὸς ἐν θοίνῃ παρών,
αὐτὸς τάδ᾽ εἰπών, αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ κτανὼν
τὸν παῖδα τὸν ἐμόν—
”Aesch. Frag. 350
when someone would speak(you would be spoken)these things
about(around)gods(goddesses, seeings),
(we)will be severe(sore, grievous, wild-blustering rage)
and(indeed we)will not give(the)chorus(dance),
neither will(would we)let-go(dismiss)the teachers upon education
to use(proclaim an oracle)of the(swimming, spinning, piling-
up in heaps)young,
if(they are)about to become(by being likely to or delaying)we,
the guardians serving-the-god(you are god-serving)
and(indeed)divine(uncles)(o uncles),
according(through)as many as(to-for-by a)human being
on the most such-as and.
ὅταν τις τοιαῦτα λέγῃ περὶ θεῶν,
χαλεπανοῦμέν τε καὶ χορὸν οὐ δώσομεν,
οὐδὲ τοὺς διδασκάλους ἐάσομεν ἐπὶ παιδείᾳ χρῆσθαι τῶν νέων,
εἰ μέλλουσιν ἡμῖν οἱ φύλακες θεοσεβεῖς τε καὶ θεῖοι γίγνεσθαι,
καθ᾽ ὅσον ἀνθρώπῳ ἐπὶ πλεῖστον οἷόν τε.
ADEIMANTOS: all-in-all
παντάπασιν, ἔφη,
SOKRATES: (we)i(being)at least agreeing-with(yielding-to)these blows(stamps,
impressions, imprints, beats, engravings, reliefs, shapes, etc),
and(indeed)as(to-by-for)laws(and customs)
would(consult as an oracle)use.
ἔγωγε τοὺς τύπους τούτους συγχωρῶ,
καὶ ὡς νόμοις ἂν χρῴμην.